do i need a water chiller if so what one?

[Jason Wright]

been a while since ive been on this great site, ive got a chinese 80w red machine 700x500 - had it about 4 years and had no issues with it (touch wood)

primarily used for my automotive trimming business so its not used all day every day like some do, and not worked hard really.

what is the optimum water temperature during operation and what temperature is considerd too high and therefore will effect the laser by way of reduced power/efficiency

not sure if i need a water chiller, seen a couple the £100 ones and the £300 ones, whats the difference ? i dont mind buying the £300 one if i need it of course.

thank you very much in advance

[Dave Vigness]

I used distilled water in a five gallon bucket sitting on concrete for quit a while. I try to keep my cooling temp at or below 77F / 26C. That is a temp I see in a lot of tube info, My EFR F2 is supposedly rated up to 104F / 40C but that seems a bit high.

I was pushing that 77F / 25C temp on a few longer jobs so I put my bucket in a mini fridge like one of the other users. I poked around in the one I got and discovered that the back wall was fair game and went out the back with hoses and wire instead of the front door. The fridge sits next top the laser and that was the best / shortest path for me. The fridge keeps the water down around 44F / 7C so it has a long way to go before it gets to 77F / 25C, much less 104F / 40C.

I'm in an unheated space, so I have the additional chore of shutting down the fridge and turning on a little heater in the winter months. Put together a rely and temp controlled relay system I'm in the middle of installing now. The prognosis looks good.

[Gene Uselman]

I figure 12-30 C, what do you have now? 3000w chillers are a radiator and fan system, 5000w coolers are actually a refrig system.

[Jason Wright]

sorry guys, didnt get an email saying there were replies.

i dont have a chiller of any type right now, i really dont have the time to modify/mess around with or space for a mini fridge etc but thanks for the example

i assume the 5000 model also keeps the water from freezing in the winter, however i dont really want to keep it on all the time as my tube heater under the lase tube has done a great job so far and only switched on when required.

i dont think im ever over 26 degrees so sounds like i may not even need one, but it never used all day every day, but i think for peace of mind i might get the 3000 model as it will cool the water more than nothing which is what i have now, that said being able to keep it at a constant temperature is going to be preferable

[Gene Uselman]

The cooler/chillers will NOT keep the coolant from freezing, no way to heat the water. Russ had a video about keeping his machine warm- you should be able to find it in the index that he has kindly provided us.

[sebastien laforet]

i dont think im ever over 26 degrees so sounds like i may not even need one, but it never used all day every day, but i think for peace of mind i might get the 3000 model as it will cool the water more than nothing which is what i have now, that said being able to keep it at a constant temperature is going to be preferable

you can start by monitoring the temp of the water when doing continuous job. for example, 1 hour non-stop, and see if the temp rises. if you gain 5°C / hour, for example, you know that you will NOT be able to laser all day long.

after that, either you target a chiller (CW-3000 if low room temp, or 5000 if the room temp may get hot and the natural heat transfer water -> air will not be enough), or you try a bigger bucket of water, or you prepare ice packs to put in the bucket.

[Jason Wright]

ok thanks, i just watched the video on the effects of power and water temperature and it seems little power drop off even at 40 degrees, which is nice to know but i wonder if running the machine at that temperature will mean the tube suffers premature failure - hence my wish to keep the temp lower, once mine reaches 25 degrees ill stop using it and come back the next day, i have the luxury of not needing to run it all day every day and maybe using this approach has meant my original tube some 4 years on is still performing well - i did fit an ammeter right when i got the machine and never use more than 55% power and even then its rare, so my machine does not have a hard life.

i still think ill get one of these, undecided if ill go with the 3000 model or splash out on the 5000.

having the capability to heat the water doesnt matter to me as i mentioned id prefer not to have the chiller unit on all the time anyway and my tube heater has been ok to date, albiet its manually turned on - i may wish to look into an automatic temperature switch for that too at some point.


thank you

[Dave Vigness]

The freezing problem in the winter is why I went with a mini fridge DIY chiller. It will cool for the bit I do, three or four hours max with breaks to swap out material, but I can add a heater for the winter months. I have a 50W fake rock birdbath heater as my heat source on top of the submersible pump.

I have a dry contact relay on the laser itself to activate the pump, mainly because I can use a diode on DC to prevent back feed to the temp control relay.

The temp control relays and actual activation relays are on the fridge itself. At 45F ambient the first relay trips and powers up the pump and provides power for the coolant temp relay. If the coolant temp drops below 40F then the second temp relay activates and switches from refrigerator to the birdbath heater.

The submersible pump generates a bit of heat on it's own and wold be sufficient for those nights that skirt the freezing mark. The second relay being powered from the first will keep it from cycling when the fridge pulls the water temp down over night during warmer weather. Theoretically that shouldn't happen, but with the highly accurate little numbered dial on the fridge control I didn't want it fighting itself. At this point I have what I will call summer and winter marks on the control. One that will take it down a bit below 40F for the summer and one that will keep it in the mid to upper 40's in the winter.

[Jason Wright]

i dont think im ever over 26 degrees so sounds like i may not even need one, but it never used all day every day, but i think for peace of mind i might get the 3000 model as it will cool the water more than nothing which is what i have now, that said being able to keep it at a constant temperature is going to be preferable

you can start by monitoring the temp of the water when doing continuous job. for example, 1 hour non-stop, and see if the temp rises. if you gain 5°C / hour, for example, you know that you will NOT be able to laser all day long.

after that, either you target a chiller (CW-3000 if low room temp, or 5000 if the room temp may get hot and the natural heat transfer water -> air will not be enough), or you try a bigger bucket of water, or you prepare ice packs to put in the bucket.

thanks, im not messing around with ice packs, if i needed to do such things id just buy the 5000 cooler, its rare i use the machine for more than an hour anyway, i hear what you are saying about the 3000 nd using in a hot room, in the summer yes its warm in the room and cold in the winter so on that basis the 3000 may not be suitable, that said due to the way and frequency is use the machine the 3000 model is better of course than the plastic tank and the aquarium pump i still use

[Jason Wright]

The freezing problem in the winter is why I went with a mini fridge DIY chiller. It will cool for the bit I do, three or four hours max with breaks to swap out material, but I can add a heater for the winter months. I have a 50W fake rock birdbath heater as my heat source on top of the submersible pump.

I have a dry contact relay on the laser itself to activate the pump, mainly because I can use a diode on DC to prevent back feed to the temp control relay.

The temp control relays and actual activation relays are on the fridge itself. At 45F ambient the first relay trips and powers up the pump and provides power for the coolant temp relay. If the coolant temp drops below 40F then the second temp relay activates and switches from refrigerator to the birdbath heater.

The submersible pump generates a bit of heat on it's own and wold be sufficient for those nights that skirt the freezing mark. The second relay being powered from the first will keep it from cycling when the fridge pulls the water temp down over night during warmer weather. Theoretically that shouldn't happen, but with the highly accurate little numbered dial on the fridge control I didn't want it fighting itself. At this point I have what I will call summer and winter marks on the control. One that will take it down a bit below 40F for the summer and one that will keep it in the mid to upper 40's in the winter.

thanks for the explanation, i whilst im sure i could knock something up like that its too much trouble for my limited time, rather just buy a 3000 or 5000 unit and stick to my tube heater under the laser, im not concerend about the plastic tub freezing so long as the water in the tube doesnt