Large bed cabinet laser issues- not a flatbed

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Gene Uselman
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016
Location: Suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Country: USA
Nickname: Gene
Laser Machine Make or Type: QC
Laser Power: 130W
Laser Bed Size: 900x1300
Home Position: TR
Control Software: LIGHTBURN
RDWorks Version: RDw .19 & Lightburn
LightBurn Version: Latest
Ruida Controller: RDC6442
Windows Version: Win 10 Pro
Accessories: I have a combining lenses, pin tables [homebuilt], honeycomb tables , wireless remote, Modifed Ultimate Air Assist, home built non-powered rotary device, PrusaMK4 and Mini Prusa printers.

My first [and current] laser was/is a 1300x900 [approx 48x36'] and I have learned over the 3 years I have loved/struggled/adapted it that these larger machines have some issues that are less of an issue for smaller machines. I will break this into installments as it is time consuming.

BED LEVELING-

Leveling the bed is harder- on my machine the left and right leadscrews are driven by separate steppers, so of course they get out of sync occasionally. I initially would turn the machine off and raise one side by manually moving the belt on the low side. That gets old, so I installed a
relay to cut the power to one side and then motoring the other side up or down to level it. This is easier with a wireless remote which has two speed settings and can be changed very accurately. Measuring the difference from side to side and front to back... I have been thru a number of
different setups and finally have settled on this digital dial gauge which mounts to the rails with a switchable magnet and bracket.

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Bed leveler - Magswitch2.jpg
If you have not experienced a Magswitch, they are powerful magnets that you can turn off by rotating the knob on top. I love magnets.

The bed is made up of 36" blades, which sat in pockets machined out of a piece of aluminum- that was leveled with screws thru the pocketed alum bar. That was impossible [for me] to get level across the whole bed... so I fabricated a new bed from 80/20 extrusions which is supported by four
bolts which facilitate the leveling. I can now get a close enough level over the entire bed, which is not necessary very often but is needed when you have the entire bed covered with a sheet of material.

BLADE BED RECONSTRUCTION-

This has some relationship to the bed leveling so lets do that next.

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blade bed.jpg
My bed as built consisted of square alum tubing on the Y axis to which the leadscrew blocks[nuts] attached- each side driven by a separate stepper and driver. This has been a burr under my saddle from day 2. The two motors get our of sync [see above]. Another problem was the black aluminum strip that was machined out to accept the ends of the blades- they had 4 or 5 vertical slots to adjust the blade all to the same plane[ at least that seems to be the theory- in practice it is... hard]. The Y tubes are rigid and are connected with steel angle [bent not forged] which leave a bit to be desired but I let them continue in my build. I used 80/20 10 series extrusions that are 1 x .5 inches as I have a lot on hand and like it, for new straight X axis members, using the original black alum strip for spacing- the blades rest on the extrusion so they are good. I made 4 leveling assemblies and positioned them close enough to the square tubes so that I was not concerned about the angle flexing that close to the
ends.

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blades and tensioners.jpg
I use my patented blade clamps® and have had the blades raise up from the pockets occasionally so I made wood tensioners to wedge between every other blade and alternate from front to back. If I rework them I will make them from impact modified acrylic which is an awesome product.
The loops in the top make them easy to remove if necessary [also patent pending :twisted: ]. If I have not used enough words [not likely] or the correct words to explain this let me know.

AIR FLOW EXPERIMENTS-

Some of the things I have done to [try] to improve exhaust air flow-
I cover the portion of the bed that I don't normally use, which is about half. I have used ACM sheeting, coroplast [plastic cardboard] and whatever comes to hand. This is also handy [but not a good thing] to pile debris on, partly cut plastic, tools, and all the detritus that seems to follow me around. I try to keep the pile below the level of the gantry...
Keep the piping outside the cabinet to the bare minimum possible, and use metal AC/Heat duct- not the flex tubing which is so much easier.
I installed panels inside the cabinet to cut down the volume and try to guide the air as much as possible.

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Airflow 1.jpg
I have two 4" high flow muffin fans [ not computer cooling ] on the floor of the cabinet pointed at the exhaust port [that come on with the exhaust fan]- about half way back from the exhaust outlet. I also have aux fans on the front lip of the cabinet that can be used and directed however might help air flow.
I should mention that I never shut the lid of my machine unless it is the last resort to keep smoke in the machine. That will rub some people wrong but it is how I roll. I think that might be the airflow portion of our program.
OK- lets wrap this up- with a large cabinet the parts that fall thru the blade bed [ which I use mostly ] are hard to reach [mine are down 28" or so] and cleaning the inside is a pain. My solution was making a frame of 15x15mm extrusion one meter by one meter and attaching alum screen to it- most parts fall and bounce toward the front so I can open the main front door and retrieve them. It also catches most of the scrap pieces which can be swept out an opening in the front sized to a dustpan. I know most of this stuff is not necessary, but it keeps me amused. Gene

BTW- The backscratcher is a good reach tool- also I have my mom's reacher/ grabber tool for many uses.

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screen.jpg
OK- one last though- I bought a laser from Automation Tech [ made by Senhui laser ] in Chicago and it had a strange bed configuration that I had not seen before, but it is actually a good idea. The blue piece is a drawer that slides out to empty the parts/detritus and the exhaust hose connects directly to the sunken portion of the bed. Result is good airflow with a lot less volume along with the easy to empty drawer.

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Automation bed design.jpg
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The days that I keep my gratitude higher than
my expectations, Well, I have really good days.

Ray Wylie Hubbard- unfortunately deceased
Mark Pipi
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Nickname: pmark
Laser Machine Make or Type: HL-1060
Laser Power: "100W"
Laser Bed Size: 100x60
Home Position: TL
RDWorks Version: 8
Windows Version: 7

Can you post pictures of the new bed made from extrusions?

I'm in the process of making a new bed because the once that came with the machine needlessly obstructs the ventilation, and I'm waffling between using 1515 or 2020 extrusions, or just square aluminum tube.

I also mounted a dial indicator to the laser head to check the bed, then spent a day worrying about it not being level although it was only out less than one mm corner to corner and made no real difference in cut or engraving quality. At least it's super-level now.
User avatar
Gene Uselman
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016
Location: Suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Country: USA
Nickname: Gene
Laser Machine Make or Type: QC
Laser Power: 130W
Laser Bed Size: 900x1300
Home Position: TR
Control Software: LIGHTBURN
RDWorks Version: RDw .19 & Lightburn
LightBurn Version: Latest
Ruida Controller: RDC6442
Windows Version: Win 10 Pro
Accessories: I have a combining lenses, pin tables [homebuilt], honeycomb tables , wireless remote, Modifed Ultimate Air Assist, home built non-powered rotary device, PrusaMK4 and Mini Prusa printers.

I will do that Mark- the beds are all constructed differently so I was not sure if that would be interesting to anyone. I have done a lot of work and and done a lot of thinking about the issues over the years and will be expanding the original thread with airflow management and other issues. I am working toward a larger machine now as all of our materials come 48" wide. I may have to have one built to my specs. I have my beady eye on a 1500x1200 right now.
If the Help and advice you received here was of VALUE...
Please consider making a donation to maintain the RDWORKSLAB Forum.



The days that I keep my gratitude higher than
my expectations, Well, I have really good days.

Ray Wylie Hubbard- unfortunately deceased
User avatar
Gene Uselman
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016
Location: Suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Country: USA
Nickname: Gene
Laser Machine Make or Type: QC
Laser Power: 130W
Laser Bed Size: 900x1300
Home Position: TR
Control Software: LIGHTBURN
RDWorks Version: RDw .19 & Lightburn
LightBurn Version: Latest
Ruida Controller: RDC6442
Windows Version: Win 10 Pro
Accessories: I have a combining lenses, pin tables [homebuilt], honeycomb tables , wireless remote, Modifed Ultimate Air Assist, home built non-powered rotary device, PrusaMK4 and Mini Prusa printers.

Mark- posting the picts slipped my mind- I think I was on a trip at the time. If you are still interested I can still do it.

I am thinking of upgrading my exhaust again- this is my latest idea. I use the right half of my 36 deep by 48 wide bed about 95% of the time and block the other side off with a sheet of material to help airflow as much as possible. It works, but could be better for sure.
My latest thinking is to build a 'pan' below the blade bed on the side I work on most- I got the idea from the Shenhui laser I bought for my daughter/granddaughter which has this pan arrangement with a drawer that slides out with small parts or more often debris from cutting. This works great as far as I can determine- the exhaust is plumbed to the pan so it is a fairly small area to evacuate [she uses an inline duct fan which is much quieter and does the job well]. I would leave my large squirrel cage fan hooked to the large cabinet area and a smaller, quieter fan for the 'pan' area. They would be switched separately of course. Here are some screenshots from a Fusion 360 mockup- the ghosted part it the inner walls of the cabinet and the granite floor and wall behind are actually cement block and concrete. The pan would be made from light galv steel by a friend who fabricates heat/A-C ducting and does great work.
I will ruminate upon this for the next month while I am away- any ideas are welcome.

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Exhaust proposal 1.2020.jpg
Exhaust inline fan 1.2020.jpg
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The days that I keep my gratitude higher than
my expectations, Well, I have really good days.

Ray Wylie Hubbard- unfortunately deceased
Jeffrey Aley
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017
Location: Folsom, California
Country: United States
Laser Machine Make or Type: Kehui
Laser Power: 50W
Laser Bed Size: 500mmx300mm
Home Position: TL
RDWorks Version: 8.01.24
Ruida Controller: RDC6442
Windows Version: Win10 Enterprise
Accessories: Spray bottle with water (for small fires)
Fire extinguisher (for big fires)

Here are my exhaust opinions. I think there are two competing goals when designing good exhaust.

First, you want laminar flow across the work surface. That means the exhaust port and the source of make-up air should be at the level of the focal plane of the laser. It makes no sense to have the exhaust port 12" (or more!) lower then the focal plane (as it is on my 50W Blue and White). Bear in mind also that the exhaust gasses tend to rise because they are hot. So you may want it slightly above the focal plane of the laser.

Second, you want a slight downward pressure to hold lightweight materials (e.g. paper) to the laser bed. You don't want the airflow to blow the material around, or cause it to wave like a flag when you're trying to cut it.

In an ideal situation, you would design location of the exhaust port AND the location of the make-up air.

These are just my opinions. I'm not an HVAC guy, nor do I have extensive experience in this area.
User avatar
Gene Uselman
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016
Location: Suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Country: USA
Nickname: Gene
Laser Machine Make or Type: QC
Laser Power: 130W
Laser Bed Size: 900x1300
Home Position: TR
Control Software: LIGHTBURN
RDWorks Version: RDw .19 & Lightburn
LightBurn Version: Latest
Ruida Controller: RDC6442
Windows Version: Win 10 Pro
Accessories: I have a combining lenses, pin tables [homebuilt], honeycomb tables , wireless remote, Modifed Ultimate Air Assist, home built non-powered rotary device, PrusaMK4 and Mini Prusa printers.

The desired flow will depend upon your work and workflow- I do 80% cutting, so the smoke I am most concerned about is below the blade bed. As far as vacuuming a substrate to the bed... I can't remember the last time I cut paper or something that light. When I do engrave I have a couple interchangeable fans that sit on the from lip of the machine to blow the fumes off the substrate, from there they are exhausted downwards again. I cut and engrave with the top lid open and only close it if there is extreme smoke and/or pong [smells]. Again, your workflow will differ, and the size of the bed and volume of the cabinet will differ. My exhaust fan has violent flow and noise- also enough flow to make the area in front of the machine very chilly in our splendid winter weather. I would like to use a smaller, quieter fan on the occasions that it would work. I have experience with the Shenhui laser with a 'pan' below the bed and, as dubious as I was after first seeing it... it works.
If the Help and advice you received here was of VALUE...
Please consider making a donation to maintain the RDWORKSLAB Forum.



The days that I keep my gratitude higher than
my expectations, Well, I have really good days.

Ray Wylie Hubbard- unfortunately deceased
User avatar
Gene Uselman
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016
Location: Suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Country: USA
Nickname: Gene
Laser Machine Make or Type: QC
Laser Power: 130W
Laser Bed Size: 900x1300
Home Position: TR
Control Software: LIGHTBURN
RDWorks Version: RDw .19 & Lightburn
LightBurn Version: Latest
Ruida Controller: RDC6442
Windows Version: Win 10 Pro
Accessories: I have a combining lenses, pin tables [homebuilt], honeycomb tables , wireless remote, Modifed Ultimate Air Assist, home built non-powered rotary device, PrusaMK4 and Mini Prusa printers.

OK- I am progressing on my bedpan [yes I am old enough to know what a bedpan is]- I developed a 2D file from my Fusion file and corrected a couple things and then cut the panels out of coroplast [think plastic corrugated cardboard] which is 4mm thick so the overlaps were not perfect but good enough to see than it would work. I just drew out full size plans on paper with our 54" vinyl cutter and gave them to a company friend who does sheetmetal ductwork and he will cut/bend the panels for me. There is a flange on the bottom to attach a drawer that is easily accessible from the right side door that I normally use to clean out debris. I will get the inline fan mentioned above and a flex tube and I expect that will work for the majority of what I do regularly. The pan will be easily removable thru the single door. The only problem I foresee is I normally cut with full power and flammable debris in the drawer may burn. We will see, I guess.

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Bed pan 3.20.jpg
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Please consider making a donation to maintain the RDWORKSLAB Forum.



The days that I keep my gratitude higher than
my expectations, Well, I have really good days.

Ray Wylie Hubbard- unfortunately deceased
User avatar
Gene Uselman
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016
Location: Suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Country: USA
Nickname: Gene
Laser Machine Make or Type: QC
Laser Power: 130W
Laser Bed Size: 900x1300
Home Position: TR
Control Software: LIGHTBURN
RDWorks Version: RDw .19 & Lightburn
LightBurn Version: Latest
Ruida Controller: RDC6442
Windows Version: Win 10 Pro
Accessories: I have a combining lenses, pin tables [homebuilt], honeycomb tables , wireless remote, Modifed Ultimate Air Assist, home built non-powered rotary device, PrusaMK4 and Mini Prusa printers.

I have been sheltering in place at home as I am 74yo and in the kill zone but life goes on. My friend is a wizard with sheet metal work and I found this at the shop when I came in to pick up a few things. I don't have time to set it up and do the proper installation and figure out the drawer beneath the opening in the bottom which will collect the debris and small parts as they fall thru the blade bed that I normally use. It can be a real pain reaching all the small bits in the bottom of the cabinet. He will bend up the drawer when I finish designing it as well. I have ordered an inline fan and will have a system of powered blast gates to select which fan will be used- normal use with the inline fan and when the complete 3x4' bed is needed, either the large squirrel cage fan or probably both fans. Everything is on hold for the months that I have to lie low till the hospitals are more prepared to keep us old fellers alive when we get the virus [worst case scenario], I really want to live thru this to see how the world is changed afterwards. Gene

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bedpan in sheetmetal.jpg
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If the Help and advice you received here was of VALUE...
Please consider making a donation to maintain the RDWORKSLAB Forum.



The days that I keep my gratitude higher than
my expectations, Well, I have really good days.

Ray Wylie Hubbard- unfortunately deceased
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