K-40 Ruida 320 Intermittent firing

[Mike Shanahan]

We are a Maker Space and have a second hand generic 40(50?) watt China Blue type laser. No documentation with it. We have had it for a couple of years and with many viewings Russ's vids we have been chugging along. A couple of weeks ago it stopped firing the tube. As we have several members that use the machine for business purposes, we needed to get it up and running asap.

We ordered a new PS (80-100 watt) with hopes that when our 40-watt tube dies we will upgrade. After installing it, since this one has a digital screen, we found that there was no Water Protection signal. We knew that we had to have the water pump running but were naively unaware of the signal return to the PS. We played with some things and intermittently got the tube to fire, but not consistently, plus the current pegged our 30ma meter.

So, we got a new water sensor and installed that. Still had problems with water supply. Found a very tight kink in the water line which solved the water problem.

We went back to the old PS and found the WP indicator light on it so I can monitor that condition. Now things worked wonderfully, ran some tests, burned our "Scantest" blocks and all was peachy keen. Closed up shop about 10pm, and went home.

Came in the next day, after emailing our members that it was up and running, and found that it wasn't up and running and had to send another email. The same problem as before, the tube would not fire. After trying everything that I could think of, by about 5:30pm, it suddenly started working again. It kept working for the next several hours and I was able to do whatever I wanted. So I went home.

This morning, guess what, yup, it won't fire again.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Jeffrey Aley]

We are a Maker Space and have a second hand generic 40(50?) watt China Blue type laser. No documentation with it. We have had it for a couple of years and with many viewings Russ's vids we have been chugging along. A couple of weeks ago it stopped firing the tube. As we have several members that use the machine for business purposes, we needed to get it up and running asap.

We ordered a new PS (80-100 watt) with hopes that when our 40-watt tube dies we will upgrade. After installing it, since this one has a digital screen, we found that there was no Water Protection signal. We knew that we had to have the water pump running but were naively unaware of the signal return to the PS. We played with some things and intermittently got the tube to fire, but not consistently, plus the current pegged our 30ma meter.

So, we got a new water sensor and installed that. Still had problems with water supply. Found a very tight kink in the water line which solved the water problem.

We went back to the old PS and found the WP indicator light on it so I can monitor that condition. Now things worked wonderfully, ran some tests, burned our "Scantest" blocks and all was peachy keen. Closed up shop about 10pm, and went home.

Came in the next day, after emailing our members that it was up and running, and found that it wasn't up and running and had to send another email. The same problem as before, the tube would not fire. After trying everything that I could think of, by about 5:30pm, it suddenly started working again. It kept working for the next several hours and I was able to do whatever I wanted. So I went home.

This morning, guess what, yup, it won't fire again.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

If you're getting a Water Protect error, an error message should show up on the display on the front panel of the laser, I think. Does the display show any error messages?

Since you have just replaced the PS, I would check the wiring connections between the RuiDa and the power supply. With the laser turned off, ohm out the connections; perhaps one is not well-connected.

By the way, a 600mm x 400mm laser w/ a RuiDa controller is not a K-40.

[Mike Shanahan]

Thanks for the quick response.

generic 40(50?) watt China Blue type laser. No documentation with it.
Don't know what to call it so I just guessed at a K-40 as we don't know any better.

We have the water problem fixed! It was probably the kink in the hose but we now have new hoses and no kinks! We have a new Water Flow sensor! We now know to look for the the WP indicator being on! (we are gaining experience/knowledge exponentially here.)

We put the original PS back in. We have found the WP indicator led and it comes on with the water pump, so that is not a problem.

We rechecked all of the connections for proper placement and did continuity checks on the cabling. All good!

Thurs PM it did not work then it did work.

Came in Fri and same thing happened, didn't at first then suddenly it did.

Sat could not get it to work at all. Had a couple of the other guys look at it and went home. Just a little frustrated!!!!

Sat, in at 5pm and tried the single file loaded on the machine, no joy.
hooked up my laptop to the interface USB and started a Scantest file, didn't work at first but about 20sec into the file it started to work.
SO, after further experimentation, we found that as long as the laptop was hooked into the laser, it will work, either from the laptop or from files stored in the laser. Pull the cable during a burn and it stops burning but the drives keep on chugging, just not lasering.
I even canceled RDWorks in my laptop and it still kept working.
We even tried hooking the interface cable to a 5v/1.8a phone charger to see if it was looking for voltage, didn't work.
I did a restart on the laptop, left the cable in, did NOT START RDWorks!, and the laser would work.

Synopsis: as long as my laptop is connected via the interface cable, the laser will work, either via the files in memory or files run directly from the computer.
Excuse me but WTF?
Ok, my girlfriend is calling me, it's been a long day, the machine sorta works, I'm going home.
PS, we may have a dying tube, or PS, but really can't figure out the laptop/interface cable thing.

[Dave Vigness]

What version of RDWorks are you using?

The symptoms you're describing sounds like the laser is pulling parts of the file in as it needs it instead of the full file and then cutting it. It's definitely not what a good controller should do, but the loss of lasing with the laptop disconnected seems to indicate it's needing something from the laptop to keep cutting.

You mentioned trying from files stored on the laser, what about files on the thumb drive? Some manufacturers will call it a U-disk. I'm thinking that maybe the controller has a memory problem of some sort, either insufficient or just plain defective.

Grasping at straws like you, but you never know what will click.

Here's another thought, the controller is set for a CO2 laser isn't it?

[Mike Shanahan]

What version of RDWorks are you using

I have 8.01.18 on my laptop but some of files are being created with 8.01.44 191015 but there seems to be no difference in the execution.

The symptoms you're describing sounds like the laser is pulling parts of the file in as it needs it instead of the full file and then cutting it. It's definitely not what a good controller should do, but the loss of lasing with the laptop disconnected seems to indicate it's needing something from the laptop to keep cutting.

First part, re: pulling part of the file from the laptop. --- The laptop does is not required to be in RDWorks, just connected. I actually did a power down and restart, then loaded Windows 7 and left it at the Windows landing screen and didn't even log in to windows and the laser works. So it seems to just need the connection to the laptop. The files that we loaded in memory were created with V 8.01.44 and the version on the laptop is V 6.01.18 so the files we had loaded to memory were created with the .44 computer and the files being executed are not even on the laptop. So they were created on an entirely different computer with a different version yet they require the laptop to be connected.
We have not tried a different laptop yet but that is on the agenda for today.

You mentioned trying from files stored on the laser, what about files on the thumb drive? Some manufacturers will call it a U-disk. I'm thinking that maybe the controller has a memory problem of some sort, either insufficient or just plain defective.

We load all files to the laser memory from thumb drives, we do not run off of thumb drives. Also, early on I wiped the memory clean to hopefully rule out any corrupted files.

Right now, as I type , one of our members is creating files using v 8.01.44, loading to udrive (thumb drive) and taking the thumb drive to the laser, loading it to memory and successfully running the laser. AS LONG AS MY LAPTOP IS CONNECTED TO THE INTERFACE PORT AND WINDOWS IS UP!

Here's another thought, the controller is set for a CO2 laser isn't it?

Yes it is.

Wow, thanks for all of the great suggestions, they have given us some definite food for thought. We have already done some of them and this gives us validity that we hopefully are looking at the possible causes. We are still plugging away trying things

We also have a group of Eagle Scouts here working in our woodshop making Adirondack chairs for a rest home. Busy weekend at the Akron MakerSpace.

[Pete Cyr]

I have not used the newer versions of RDWORKS but so far my experience has been files created with a version newer than the version running on the Laser will not work. I am not sure that is THE problem but it could be a problem.

[Dave Vigness]

Pete, good thought.

Mike, it might be a good idea to see what firmware you have on the controller vs. what is available on the RuiDa web page. Wouldn't be the first time a firmware upgrade has solved all sorts of ghost problems. Hell, it wouldn't hut to reload the same version before doing that just to make sure you don't have any glitches in what you have. Kinda like reinstalling Windows to reset / reload all the dll's and such.

I have tangential experience with this, as I install and de-install various programs on my PC fairly regularly. Many a time an uninstall has reverted or removed a driver or dll that another program needs. I have to rebuild from a ghost every six to twelve months just because of all the install / de-installs.

Case in point, that PC gets the RDWorks pop up error every time my Corel opens or closes a file. I have a feeling it needs a particular version of .net, but that is just a guess. Haven't found anybody that can tell me what version of .net RDWorks uses.

Latest STABLE version of RDWorks I have found is .41. I found a copy of a .44 and thought I hit pay dirt... NOT! It was either a bad beta or just plain a bad copy. Lots of missing features and such. If you got .44 and it's working be thankful. In fact, you might try deleting the .44 and going back to .41. Don't know if it will help, but I can say for sure the .44 I had was BAD!

If I'm reading this right, the laser has to be connected to the computer that has the .44 on it to function, or have you hooked another laptop up with the same results, specifically something that does not have ANY version of RDWorks installed even if it's not running? Wouldn't be the first time somebody tweaked their beta to have to be connected for their files to process correctly.

[Mike Shanahan]

Well, it's time for a kludge!

We discovered that we have apparently lost the ground for the USB interface connector. By having the USB Interface socket connected to the pc via the USB interface cable, it was supplying the missing ground through the pc to the power plug.

See the picture for our fix. NOT PERMANENT! but at least I can get my laptop back!

We are still trying to rundown where we lose the ground but we are afraid that it inside the controller.

The weird part of this is that the USB shell is NOT part of the circuitry! USB has 4 wires, 2 for power, 2 for signal, the case/shell whatever you call it is not part of the circuitry but is usually connected to the cable shield then to ground for rfi protection. But to get this laser to fire, apparently the shell of the USB A plug going into the controller has to be grounded. That connection from the USB cable shell to the ground at the controller is missing and that is what is messing us up.

And yes, we have 2 low voltage power supplies. Bottom one died on us a couple of months ago so I replaced it but can't remove the old one without de-constructing most of the laser case to get at the screws which come in from the bottom. They are apparently connected through a sub-panel that is mounted inside the case so we can't get at it from the bottom.

Oh well, at least we are lasering again.

Thanks for the valuable input and responses. They helped me to do a more complete troubleshooting exercise. We're not done yet but at least we can work.

[Dave Vigness]

Mike,

I'm glad to hear you're up and running. Please do keep an eye on your .44. I didn't realize I had a bad beta until iItried translating things from my Top Wisdom prior to change over. The hunt for the Go Scale button was what finally convinced me I had a bad version. Loaded the .41 and have been happy ever since.


BTW, if you haven't watched them, do yourself a favor and watch Russ' Learning Lab videos. I leaned so much from them I can't possibly thank Russ enough. The Dohicky for testing my actual power was a blessing, and he makes adapter tubes for those of us with the China Red and Blue machines to be able to use the proper lens / nozzle / air combinations. I had no idea that with my nearly 20mm focal length gauge, large hole nozzle, and low flow air fitting I had an engraving set up and not a cutting set up. His videos taught me the difference and the importance of the difference. Not to mention power and speed and.. well you get the hint. At the very least, you need to have Ma and temp gauges.

All of his knowledge passed along has given me the confidence to make many improvements to my laser that just make it easier to use.

Fell free to PM me if you have more questions or need a file. I will pass on as much as I can.

[Dave Vigness]

Mike,

You may be tracking down various power issues as these are all 220V machines that were 'Adapted' for 110V.

I was making several modifications that were behaving in so many screwy way I was ready to pull hair. I was only when I had to replace the main switch that I discovered my problem. In adapting the units for 110V, they left the second hot in place and let it become the neutral... but it is SWITCHED! Be VERY weary of any taped connections. Most will just be taped and twisted, ( They seem to be allergic to solder over there. ) but my neutral back to the aux outlets had a tape splice in the middle... uh huh.

The pulled the insulation back to bare about 1/2" of wire without cutting it, did the same to another piece, twisted the second around the first and taped it up. One end of the second wire goes to the laser tube power supply, the other goes to the 5V / 24V power supply. Just one of many things to correct when I have the time.