'Winterizing' advice

[Peter Vanhulten]

Hi all, winter is coming! And therefore I am planning to 'winterize' my machine.
I have watched Russ's video on the topic and I actually have everything lying around to make a setup with halogen spots. However... The space around the laser tube is a little tight to fit the halogen bulbs, and I am worried they will be too close to the lasertube. I do have an option to mount them near the ends of the tube (on the sides of the machine if that makes sense), but somehow I still have doubts using this setup on my machine.
Furthermore, I think the space inside the water chiller (CW5200) is also quite a lot smaller then that of the CW3000, so that might also be a tight fit (not totally sure about that though, haven't checked yet).

Now I have two setups in mind that rely on an aquarium heater to warm up the water (something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/XiLONG-Aquariu ... =471496031 )

Winter (Setup A).png

Winter (Setup B).png

Setup A relies on the chiller to circulate the water. I would only need to buy the aquarium heater and would be ready to go (unless I am forgetting something ). The downside of this setup is that everytime I want to use the chiller when operating the laser I would have to unplug the chiller from the temperature controller (Inkbird ITC308) so that it is not controlled by the thermostat.
I know it only takes seconds to do this, but I can't reach the back of the machine that easily, plus I probably would forget to change the plug on that one day the next ice age sets in )

That's why I am leaning to Setup B, which uses an aquarium pump in stead of the chiller unit to circulate the water. This way the aquarium pump and the water heater are both connected to the temperature controller, without the need to change power plugs (one less way for me to screw things up!)
I would have to buy an extra item for this setup, but they don't cost that much so I am fine with that. Also, I think the power consumption of the aquarium pump will be less than that of the water chiller.

So now I have one important question:
Is it even possible to put an aquarium pump in line (before) with the water chiller? In other words, does the chiller block the waterflow when it is turned off, or will I be able to pump water through it?

One more thing I am wondering about; If it takes too long for the aquarium pump to heat up the water in the extra tank, I might turn it on (24/7-ish) so the watertemperature stays at a constant 15C or something like that. Will there be chance of thermal shock inside the laser tube from the "instant" temperature raise of around 10C (so from 5'C to 15C) when the waterpump is triggered by the thermostat, or won't that be any problem?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

(P.s. I am aware that when operating the water chiller, the water that comes from the outlet is the cold water. In my drawings it shows as reddish, but this is to indicate the water temperature when the cooling/laser is turned off)

Gr. Peter

[Dave Vigness]

I'll give you my set up, and you can go from there.

I did the DIY Mini Fridge. Tank in the fridge and pump in the tank. I have a fake rock 50W bird bath heater in the tank as well.

I have two temp controlled relays and a four relay board using three out of four plus a single in the laser itself. Here's the operation.

Normal laser operation, when the laser powers up, the relay in the laser closes to trip a relay on the mini fridge to turn the pump on. Nothing special other than the dual relay for isolation purposes.

With the laser off and the ambient drops below 40F the first temp relay closes and turns the pump on ( The reason for the isolation relay set up ) and provides power to the second relay but does not trip it. As it is a submersible pump, it adds a bit of heat to the water along with the flow to keep everything happy on nights where the temp is flirting with freezing.

The temp keeps dropping, dropping the coolant temp below 36F. The second relay trips and pulls power from the mini fridge and applies power to the bird bath heater. It keeps the coolant in the 40 - 45F range no problem.

I had to go with a two stage with the ambient as a primary because the fridge temps were down enough to trip the coolant relay from time to time and shut my fridge off when it wasn't needed... AND MY BEVERAGES WEREN'T COLD !

With your chiller, I could envision a second tank with the little heater and a, or a pair of, check valves to control the water flow. Russ uses the bulbs because of his high humidity. If you have cold but not humidity, then heating the water is more efficient. He's heating with 200W, I only use 50W and I'm not far from Kansas City. You could use a regular or temp controlled relay to switch between the chiller pump and the aquarium pump if needed. DPDT relay on Amazon is cheap. Pick your coil voltage 5V, 12V or 24V DC.

Ohh, here's a thought, put a switch to disable the compressor instead of energizing the pump.

[sebastien laforet]

Hi all, winter is coming! And therefore I am planning to 'winterize' my machine.

also, just pour some anti-freeze in the water, and that's ok. unless you go *really* cold, it will be fine. very simple and not prone to any failure as a unmonitored contraption with many sensors and relays...

[Peter Vanhulten]

Thank you Dave and Sebastien for your thoughts!

Sebastien, I have thought about using anti-freeze/glycol in the water mixture, but I have read a lot of mixed opinions on the subject. There are many reports and theories that suggest going this route might cause problems down the road (a little too many for my peace of mind).
The anti-freeze/glycol would be slightly corrosive, and change the conductivity of the cooling water. The corrosive part isn't my biggest concern, as it might take quite a while for this to effect the laser tube components itself (It might take longer than the listed working life of the tube, but hey, I am NOT a scientist )
The change of conductivity however will apparantly be the real problem. I have read quite a lot of reports of this leading to failure of the POWER SUPPLY. And since the power supply could/should have a longer lifespan I would like to avoid this.

Again, I am NOT a scientist, so I am just going with my gut feeling on this


Dave, thank you very much for describing your setup! However, besides not being a scientist, I am also NOT an electrician haha. The multi relay setup makes me a little nervous to install a setup like this myself. I do know some people who could install this for me easily, but I am a bit stubborn so I always try to 'MacGyver' it myself haha. And since I already purchased the Inkbird ITC308 temp. controller I think I will stick with that.
The Inkbird does have two relais in it, one triggering when the temperature goes BELOW a certain point and the other triggering when the temperature goes ABOVE a certain point (cooling/heating). I might be able to make use of the extra relais in there, so food for thought

For the humidity problem; I think I might have to work something out for that because here in the Netherlands it can get quite humid (Like in the UK where Russ lives). As said before, I do have all components lying around to make the 'halogen bulb setup', so I think I will just install some of those in the main body of the machine, where I have plenty room to put them.


Thank you guys again for your thoughts!


If anyone happens to know if it is possible to put a waterpump inline with the chiller unit, I would still love to hear about it!!


Gr. Peter

[Pete Cyr]

if it is possible to put a waterpump inline with the chiller unit,

Yes - it won't hurt anythingjust be sure your hose connections are secure bcause you are goign to boost the system pressure a bit by placing pumps in series.
I also recommend ONLY using RV anitfreeze (recreational vehicle =RV)

[Dave Vigness]

The relay set up is 90% low voltage, I use an old 3A 5VDC phone charger. I have the incoming high voltage that powers the little wall wort, and a little terminal strip to break it out to the relays and outlets for the pump, fridge, and heater.

But if you have a humidity problem, then I would suggest going with the lamps. Something you might look into. In the US in the farm and home stores we have a little thing called a ThermoCube. It looks like a little three way splitter but it doesn't have a center plug. In side in place of that center plug is a preset thermo couple. http://www.thermocube.com/

I know it's a US product, but you might check around and see if you have a local equivalent. I used them in the plumbing cabinet under my auto horse water buckets for many years. Any time the ambient drops below the preset, it energizes the outlets and turns on what ever is plugged into them. Since the water enclosures were in the middle of the paddock, I had a pair of 100W bulbs connected to mine. I only needed a pair of 50W for my area, but withe two plugged in I had 'back up' when one burned out. My luck it would have burned out just after dark and been frozen by morning if I only had one bulb.

Good luck with your adventures in winterizing !

[sebastien laforet]

The anti-freeze/glycol would be slightly corrosive, and change the conductivity of the cooling water. The corrosive part isn't my biggest concern, as it might take quite a while for this to effect the laser tube components itself (It might take longer than the listed working life of the tube, but hey, I am NOT a scientist )
The change of conductivity however will apparantly be the real problem. I have read quite a lot of reports of this leading to failure of the POWER SUPPLY. And since the power supply could/should have a longer lifespan I would like to avoid this.

the mixture will NEVER be in contact with anything except glass. so the only case of corrosion might be inside the chiller, but never in the laser. the water flows "around" the tube.

also, i'm fairly confident that the change in conductivity has no effect on the power supply. at worst, you could believe a conductive liquid would be a way for an electrical arc, but the liquid is enclosed in glass which is extremely good at stopping curring (high voltage isolator are made of glass). and for this to happen, there should be a failure in the tube isolation first.

i use this mix for 3 years, and i have yet never seen an hint of a problem. but i admit it is no proof.

[Peter Vanhulten]

Thank you again for your advice gentleman!

Pete, I am very happy to hear that it won't be a problem to put the aquarium pump in line with the chiller. I will go down this route and see what result I get. I will check the connections to be sure, but I don't think the pressure will be that much higher since the aquarium pump and chiller will almost never run at the same time.

Dave, you have convinced me to go with the lamps, as an extra addition to the aquarium heater setup. I have looked at the thermocubes and they are very nifty little things I must say. The Inkbird ITC308 I ordered will do the same thing so I don't think I will have to get the thermocubes for now, but I will certainly keep it in mind! So thank you for that!

And Sebastien, I am convinced you know a lot more on the subject than I do haha. If the system lasts for three years already without any problems I am sure the risk isn't that great
For this winter I will start with the setup as described above, but if I find it to be too much of a hassle I think I will take my chances with the antifreeze next year

[Dave Vigness]

Don't be afraid of the antifreeze. I got the non toxic pink RV stuff for my first winter. I did have one problem with it, it turned the inside of the silicone tubing pink. Didn't bother the poly stuff at all.

One thing to check putting them in series, can you get flow through the chiller with the pump turned off? Depends on the type of internal pump.

[Peter Vanhulten]

One thing to check putting them in series, can you get flow through the chiller with the pump turned off? Depends on the type of internal pump.

I have no idea if it will work. I have searched around on Google and found out that a lot of pumps actually do, but unfortunately I can't find any info about the specific pump inside the chiller unit. I guess the only way to find out is to disconnect the tubes on the back and blow through it to see if water comes out the other one.